Inspired by a post on my favourite friendly proboard ( http://feelforthehorse.proboards.com/ ) about the implications of working with several different trainers, that got me thinking about getting to the point where you feel confident enough to work in your own right.
When I first watched Mark work I knew pretty much instantly that he had something I needed to learn. That was how I wanted to work with my horses. I watched him for a few years (and hopefully will continue to do so) and slowly slowly I began to get the hang of it, to the point where I'm pretty happy with most of what I do around the horses now.
From there I found I had the confidence to begin to work things out in my own right. I began to get an understanding of how I think a horse should perform in a way that he is both physically and mentally comfortable with. As it turns out, not surprisingly really I guess, I found this is also the way that is most comfortable for me too.
At that point I realised that I had in my mind a kind of overview of how to be with my horse and how to train him to be how I wanted him to be. Of course it is not a finished product, and it is unlikely to be one for me either. I know I am never going to be an incredible horse person, but I do think I can be a pretty reasonable one.
There is another question that ties in to this subject and actually really interests me too - what level can we really expect to get to with our horsemanship? Are some of us doomed to forever not really know how to do this? I don't believe that for a minute. I do believe that it is in quite a lot of peoples interest to make us believe that though, because that keeps them in work. I was listening to a trainer having a casual conversation the other day and in all seriousness, he said, 'I'm not showing them how I do this, it cost me a lot of money to learn that'.
I thought at the time, 'well, good luck to you mate, you haven't understood the way this game works. Horsemanship is not some list of facts you learn and then buy and sell for money - it's a lifelong apprenticeship that is way beyond that'. Needless to say I didn't have the bottle to say it out loud, so I just sneaked away and wrote it on my blog.
Wednesday, 17 June 2009
Tuesday, 2 June 2009
Nurturing the natural try
'We shall take care never to vex the horse, or cause it to abandon its affable gracefulness in disgust. For this is like the fragrance of blossoms, which never returns once it has vanished'.
Antoine de Pluvinel 1685
As I go on learning more and more about horses I keep spotting more and more stuff. Improving my horsemanship is in fact an endless quest.
Anyway, I don't know if I have ever mentioned Hugo before, but he is interesting, mainly for one thing - he is totally lazy and only half there. Now, years ago I would probably have been fine with that - a nice slow horse that even my granny could have sat on, but now I am looking at him and thinking, 'how the hell did he get in to that state?'.
He's lost his 'try'. So here is what I think. The try is there in the horse, he wants to find a peaceful place, and through selection man has bred it into them maybe even more. Horses are born with try - loads of it. A bit like working dogs, they want to get it right. Our job is not to kill that try, but to actually nurture it. There is nothing so much fun as sitting on a horse that tries - it is a powerful and inspiring experience. There is nothing so dispiriting as sitting on a horse that has lost its try - feeling the pain of its history, and then feeling the pain of trying to rebuild that try - I think it is one of the hardest jobs and I'm not sure it's even possible. I'm not sure they can ever be the same again.
So here is my plan. Any horse I am working on, I want to preserve and nurture the try. I don't want to be the one that is responsible for taking that out of the horse. So how can I do that? Well the really obvious things to avoid are quite simple. Get your releases right. Don't just go in all guns blazing - ask small and release on the first signs of a try. Once you've asked don't just release without getting a response. Don't keep asking when the horse is already doing what you asked for. Don't confuse the horse by asking too much too soon, or by asking in inconsistent unclear ways. And here is the big one that I'm still thinking about, but I am pretty sure is true. Keep the horse happy working for a good release. In other words, don't go upping the reward, because then the horse won't be so keen to work for less.
There is nothing so good as a horse that is naturally happy to work.
Thursday, 2 April 2009
How we work.
We have been running clinics for a few years now and we are happy to work with most situations people ask about. I would like to explain a bit more about how we work. If you are booked into one of our clinics or would like to attend one, then it is best that you have some idea about our work.
Our most important aim when we work with horses is that they are relaxed. When a horse is relaxed he can learn, or at least he can learn stuff you want him to learn. When he isn’t relaxed there is a good chance he can learn a lot of stuff you’d rather he didn’t. A lot of us can get our horses relaxed when we are on the ground, but sometimes when we are riding they are anything but. It took me a while to work this problem out, but as with everything, once I realised it, I couldn’t believe I’d missed something so obvious.
I just kept thinking, how come they trust me when I’m on the ground, and how come nearly all driven horses, and nearly all working horses just get on with it, but a large number of leisure horses just can’t relax when they are being ridden? The answer is that horses just find it really difficult to deal with grey areas – they need to know and understand what is going on. If they don’t know or understand, they don’t feel safe, and that is when you get all the tricky stuff happening. It’s a fair enough deal, I’d say: the horse is entitled to feel safe, or worry – that’s what horses do.
So I set off on my search for grey areas when I ride my horse. It didn’t take me long to find some. Here’s a really basic one that I reckon a few of us have come across. When I asked my horse to turn right she went nicely around the curve but when I asked her to turn left she fell across the turn. Now, before you all go, ‘ah, now what you need to do is this, blah blah blah’, I want to explain what I thought my horse made of this. She thought that my cue for turn one way meant one thing, and my same cue on the other side to turn the other way meant another thing.
For a while I just assumed she was stiff or bent or something, but now I have worked it out. If I get her to completely release all her tension, and then I explain the two types of turn, and have them on different cues, then she is fine. When I got this organised I felt like she was saying to me, ‘Why didn’t you explain that to me properly before?’ Looking further into that situation I suddenly realised that there were a whole lot of movements there that my horse had options on, that I wasn’t in control of, she was. That, for her, was a huge grey area.
As it turns out, the two things we have found that make the difference with pretty much all horses are understanding the bit, and balance – front to back and straightness. Getting a nice relaxed mouth, and nice soft hands with no pull, and getting the horse balanced on all four feet, can make a huge difference. So that’s how we work. Everything must make sense to the horse. It’s just not fair if it doesn’t. And if it does, what do you get? You get a nice calm horse!
Our most important aim when we work with horses is that they are relaxed. When a horse is relaxed he can learn, or at least he can learn stuff you want him to learn. When he isn’t relaxed there is a good chance he can learn a lot of stuff you’d rather he didn’t. A lot of us can get our horses relaxed when we are on the ground, but sometimes when we are riding they are anything but. It took me a while to work this problem out, but as with everything, once I realised it, I couldn’t believe I’d missed something so obvious.
I just kept thinking, how come they trust me when I’m on the ground, and how come nearly all driven horses, and nearly all working horses just get on with it, but a large number of leisure horses just can’t relax when they are being ridden? The answer is that horses just find it really difficult to deal with grey areas – they need to know and understand what is going on. If they don’t know or understand, they don’t feel safe, and that is when you get all the tricky stuff happening. It’s a fair enough deal, I’d say: the horse is entitled to feel safe, or worry – that’s what horses do.
So I set off on my search for grey areas when I ride my horse. It didn’t take me long to find some. Here’s a really basic one that I reckon a few of us have come across. When I asked my horse to turn right she went nicely around the curve but when I asked her to turn left she fell across the turn. Now, before you all go, ‘ah, now what you need to do is this, blah blah blah’, I want to explain what I thought my horse made of this. She thought that my cue for turn one way meant one thing, and my same cue on the other side to turn the other way meant another thing.
For a while I just assumed she was stiff or bent or something, but now I have worked it out. If I get her to completely release all her tension, and then I explain the two types of turn, and have them on different cues, then she is fine. When I got this organised I felt like she was saying to me, ‘Why didn’t you explain that to me properly before?’ Looking further into that situation I suddenly realised that there were a whole lot of movements there that my horse had options on, that I wasn’t in control of, she was. That, for her, was a huge grey area.
As it turns out, the two things we have found that make the difference with pretty much all horses are understanding the bit, and balance – front to back and straightness. Getting a nice relaxed mouth, and nice soft hands with no pull, and getting the horse balanced on all four feet, can make a huge difference. So that’s how we work. Everything must make sense to the horse. It’s just not fair if it doesn’t. And if it does, what do you get? You get a nice calm horse!
Monday, 23 March 2009
Yeehah
So what are we all looking at?
OMG, who bought those?
Well, the thing is they are organic and they are pedigree!
Now all we need is Glenatron and Zorro
to come and round them up!
Thursday, 19 March 2009
A question of bits
The other day I met a horse who doesn't like a snaffle bit. I once would have taken that at face value, but now it leaves me wondering whether they quite understand that bit or whether it just comes down to other reasons. Have you found horses that, once they knew what was meant by it, still showed strong preferences between bits, and if so what do you attribute that to?
Many times I have seen horses who really can't get on with a particular bit, but when they are shown some logic in how it works they settle down with it. What they really struggle with is irrationality.
I have to admit I never rush to change things. I would really need to be convinced that it is the actual bit that is causing the issue, and I have to say I don't remember the last time I personally changed a bit for physical problems. I do often change them if I feel that the bit is designed in a way that makes the communication between the rider and the horse 'blurry'. I like the bit to sit pretty still in the horse's mouth, so if there is a lot of side to side movement I change that. I also can't see how leverage bits can be clear in the way I like, because it is very hard for most of us to guage the effect of leverage.
Now I know this might sound arrogant, but hopefully it may be helpful. We have one horse who gets really fidgety and chewy on her bit. When we ride her she settles down and makes no fuss at all. We sometimes use her for other people to ride, and pretty much for the next few rides she fidgets with the bit. To me that clearly says, if the horse understands the bit she is fine. If things change, maybe it's just the change, or maybe if there is a bit of 'pull' in there, she loses confidence and worries.
I was talking to a friend of mine this morning and she was using slobber straps. She has a spare set she was trying to sell me. I personally don't think slobber straps would suit the way I use the bit, but her and her horse were getting along fine. What I am saying is this. I think there are probably loads of ways of communicating with a horse using a bit. So if you use a bit, I would just say, make sure it makes sense to your horse before you rush out to change it. If you don't know what 'making sense' is when you are using a bit, then firstly, how is your horse going to make sense of that, and secondly ASK someone you trust to explain how they use the bit and see if that makes sense to you, then you can make sense to your horse.
I guess I'd have to say I haven't really seen horses that prefer one bit majorly to another, but then I always use the same bits, and I don't see that many horses, and I don't see that many different breeds.
Many times I have seen horses who really can't get on with a particular bit, but when they are shown some logic in how it works they settle down with it. What they really struggle with is irrationality.
I have to admit I never rush to change things. I would really need to be convinced that it is the actual bit that is causing the issue, and I have to say I don't remember the last time I personally changed a bit for physical problems. I do often change them if I feel that the bit is designed in a way that makes the communication between the rider and the horse 'blurry'. I like the bit to sit pretty still in the horse's mouth, so if there is a lot of side to side movement I change that. I also can't see how leverage bits can be clear in the way I like, because it is very hard for most of us to guage the effect of leverage.
Now I know this might sound arrogant, but hopefully it may be helpful. We have one horse who gets really fidgety and chewy on her bit. When we ride her she settles down and makes no fuss at all. We sometimes use her for other people to ride, and pretty much for the next few rides she fidgets with the bit. To me that clearly says, if the horse understands the bit she is fine. If things change, maybe it's just the change, or maybe if there is a bit of 'pull' in there, she loses confidence and worries.
I was talking to a friend of mine this morning and she was using slobber straps. She has a spare set she was trying to sell me. I personally don't think slobber straps would suit the way I use the bit, but her and her horse were getting along fine. What I am saying is this. I think there are probably loads of ways of communicating with a horse using a bit. So if you use a bit, I would just say, make sure it makes sense to your horse before you rush out to change it. If you don't know what 'making sense' is when you are using a bit, then firstly, how is your horse going to make sense of that, and secondly ASK someone you trust to explain how they use the bit and see if that makes sense to you, then you can make sense to your horse.
I guess I'd have to say I haven't really seen horses that prefer one bit majorly to another, but then I always use the same bits, and I don't see that many horses, and I don't see that many different breeds.
Tuesday, 10 March 2009
Endless Discussion!
This is a question from our friend Carrie, to Sarah. It relates to the 'bitless' text on Dr Cook's website. I thought you might enjoy reading it, not so much because it's a bout bitless, or bits, but more because I think it important to try and get to that point where the 'endless discussion' stops.
hi sarah, as i said on the fone the other day the vet said to look up bitless. so i did. im not going 1 way or the other but was just interested and open to both sides. at the moment i use both methods, ie bit and riding of the head coller and cant c me changing yet. ive copied and pasted dr robbert cook whos seems to be very opinionated but he did throw up a question for me i wanted to seek yr opinion? the question is wots yr opinion on the bit interfering with breathing? ive also put other info of his just for u 2 read
Carrie
Hats off to you for researching stuff - I'd say the majority of horse people I meet can't be bothered, or read something and pick out the sensational bits, pass them on as gospel and then immediately forget about it all again!
I haven't really got time to read through all this right now (I've read quite a bit of it, and way in the past have read the whole thing). But I might make a few general observations:
1) Be wary of 'scientific' claims made by people who are trying to sell you something.
2) I'll take back No 1 if DC has full and proper, extensive, provable and repeatable scientific evidence for everything he says (maybe that comes further down the text?)!
3) This whole dichotomy between 'bits' and 'bitless' seems completely artificial to me - and I think to you, as you are doing both. My feeling is that it has arisen over the past few decades as horses became primarily leisure (not working) animals and people began to see them as pets - with all the sentimental, ill-conceived baggage and shrieking about 'cruelty' that goes with that. There are traditions of riding where both bits and bitless are used at various different stages of training (eg vacquero cowboys, who progress from snaffle bit, to bosal, finally to curb for the fully trained horse), and plenty of people who mix both as they like. I ain't got a problem with that, would do it myself, and riding with just a sidepull or headcollar or indeed nothing is fun and different for the horse and rider, good training, and so on - but for safety's sake, and 'kindness' sake, it does presuppose your horse being responsive to your feel on the reins (whatever is on the horse's end of them), weight, body movements, breathing etc, which many horses that are being 'tortured' in bitless devices aren't.
I just think pitting bits against bitless is the wrong thing to do - both have their place, depending on your individual preference, where your horse is at in his training (or lack of it!), and what you want to do with your horse, both overall and at any particular time. Humans naturally want to seek one 'truth' and stick to it (and slag off anyone who is doing things differently) - basically, it's easier that way - but the reality of the situation is that there are many 'truths' built on top of some (possibly) universal principles. Hence, all the different riding styles that have evolved around the world, for different purposes.
4) I do think you would find it hard to achieve some things with some horses without using a bit - you need that fine, subtle communication and clarity for the horse. If you think it's 'cruel', fine - stick to doing the things you can do without it.
For example, if you look at the proponents of bitless who do High School, you'll notice straight away that they select their horses really carefully - mainly Iberian horses - because these horses have been bred for correct balance for collected work from birth. And at least one leading proponent I know of adds a bridle at the end of training in order to reach the highest level of refinement. (He also said, when I went to watch him, that most horses could not offer you anything beyond shoulder-in - which is clearly nonsense, but might be true if you couldn't offer THEM anything extra in the way of help with their balance.) Ditto for NH - everyone focuses on the riding in a halter, but these systems too end up with a bit. Why do you think that is?
5) I tried out a DC bridle many years ago and found it pretty gross and unclear for the horse. Others obviously have a different experience - but we're all looking for different things from our horses. (And it's not the equipment, it's how you use it - I recently watched a chaotic lesson with someone who was adamant that she would only ride both her horses in a DC bridle because it's kinder, and neither had the slightest understanding of what they were supposed to do - is that kind?)
6) This is the same type of debate you get between barefoot and farriers, vets and equine dentists, treed and treeless saddles - again, note that many of these debates are based on business/market share rather than a search for what is best for each individual horse and person. I'm sick to death of it all, to be honest. In my view, people need to get informed, just as you are trying to do, then make up their own minds and shut up trying to tell everyone else what to do! The difficulty is that it takes a long time to get a good overall view of all these aspects of horsemanship, see where they overlap or contradict, how things fit together, how different training methods are aiming for the same or different things, and what ARE the universal truths (if any?) about horses - mentally, anatomically, biomechanically, emotionally, etc. It's this understanding that then allows you to look at this overwhelming morass of STUFF and make an informed judgement, which then allows you to take things forward in a way that makes sense to and benefits your horse.
That's the quest I've been on for decades, Carrie, and the one you are on, too. It's worth the journey even to get as far as I have, but it's tough. And when you reach a certain point, you truly feel liberated - you can make up your own mind and be confident that at least you won't make things worse for the horse, and very possibly you'll make them better. KEEP GOING!!
Write back if any other questions/comments. And do you want a slot on the next clinic (£35 per day this time, as an old timer!)? Got a couple of people interested already, so don't wait too long.
Lots of love to you and your horses
Sarah
* * *
hi sarah, as i said on the fone the other day the vet said to look up bitless. so i did. im not going 1 way or the other but was just interested and open to both sides. at the moment i use both methods, ie bit and riding of the head coller and cant c me changing yet. ive copied and pasted dr robbert cook whos seems to be very opinionated but he did throw up a question for me i wanted to seek yr opinion? the question is wots yr opinion on the bit interfering with breathing? ive also put other info of his just for u 2 read
* * *
Carrie
Hats off to you for researching stuff - I'd say the majority of horse people I meet can't be bothered, or read something and pick out the sensational bits, pass them on as gospel and then immediately forget about it all again!
I haven't really got time to read through all this right now (I've read quite a bit of it, and way in the past have read the whole thing). But I might make a few general observations:
1) Be wary of 'scientific' claims made by people who are trying to sell you something.
2) I'll take back No 1 if DC has full and proper, extensive, provable and repeatable scientific evidence for everything he says (maybe that comes further down the text?)!
3) This whole dichotomy between 'bits' and 'bitless' seems completely artificial to me - and I think to you, as you are doing both. My feeling is that it has arisen over the past few decades as horses became primarily leisure (not working) animals and people began to see them as pets - with all the sentimental, ill-conceived baggage and shrieking about 'cruelty' that goes with that. There are traditions of riding where both bits and bitless are used at various different stages of training (eg vacquero cowboys, who progress from snaffle bit, to bosal, finally to curb for the fully trained horse), and plenty of people who mix both as they like. I ain't got a problem with that, would do it myself, and riding with just a sidepull or headcollar or indeed nothing is fun and different for the horse and rider, good training, and so on - but for safety's sake, and 'kindness' sake, it does presuppose your horse being responsive to your feel on the reins (whatever is on the horse's end of them), weight, body movements, breathing etc, which many horses that are being 'tortured' in bitless devices aren't.
I just think pitting bits against bitless is the wrong thing to do - both have their place, depending on your individual preference, where your horse is at in his training (or lack of it!), and what you want to do with your horse, both overall and at any particular time. Humans naturally want to seek one 'truth' and stick to it (and slag off anyone who is doing things differently) - basically, it's easier that way - but the reality of the situation is that there are many 'truths' built on top of some (possibly) universal principles. Hence, all the different riding styles that have evolved around the world, for different purposes.
4) I do think you would find it hard to achieve some things with some horses without using a bit - you need that fine, subtle communication and clarity for the horse. If you think it's 'cruel', fine - stick to doing the things you can do without it.
For example, if you look at the proponents of bitless who do High School, you'll notice straight away that they select their horses really carefully - mainly Iberian horses - because these horses have been bred for correct balance for collected work from birth. And at least one leading proponent I know of adds a bridle at the end of training in order to reach the highest level of refinement. (He also said, when I went to watch him, that most horses could not offer you anything beyond shoulder-in - which is clearly nonsense, but might be true if you couldn't offer THEM anything extra in the way of help with their balance.) Ditto for NH - everyone focuses on the riding in a halter, but these systems too end up with a bit. Why do you think that is?
5) I tried out a DC bridle many years ago and found it pretty gross and unclear for the horse. Others obviously have a different experience - but we're all looking for different things from our horses. (And it's not the equipment, it's how you use it - I recently watched a chaotic lesson with someone who was adamant that she would only ride both her horses in a DC bridle because it's kinder, and neither had the slightest understanding of what they were supposed to do - is that kind?)
6) This is the same type of debate you get between barefoot and farriers, vets and equine dentists, treed and treeless saddles - again, note that many of these debates are based on business/market share rather than a search for what is best for each individual horse and person. I'm sick to death of it all, to be honest. In my view, people need to get informed, just as you are trying to do, then make up their own minds and shut up trying to tell everyone else what to do! The difficulty is that it takes a long time to get a good overall view of all these aspects of horsemanship, see where they overlap or contradict, how things fit together, how different training methods are aiming for the same or different things, and what ARE the universal truths (if any?) about horses - mentally, anatomically, biomechanically, emotionally, etc. It's this understanding that then allows you to look at this overwhelming morass of STUFF and make an informed judgement, which then allows you to take things forward in a way that makes sense to and benefits your horse.
That's the quest I've been on for decades, Carrie, and the one you are on, too. It's worth the journey even to get as far as I have, but it's tough. And when you reach a certain point, you truly feel liberated - you can make up your own mind and be confident that at least you won't make things worse for the horse, and very possibly you'll make them better. KEEP GOING!!
Write back if any other questions/comments. And do you want a slot on the next clinic (£35 per day this time, as an old timer!)? Got a couple of people interested already, so don't wait too long.
Lots of love to you and your horses
Sarah
Thursday, 12 February 2009
Living with the Dinosaurs
Some years ago I heard Mark talking about sitting on his horse and how he could feel this energy underneath him ready to go in any direction he asked. I imagined it would feel like sitting on a ball that could roll in any direction. Now, some time later, I can see and feel this myself. I can look at the horse being ridden and see which way the energy is falling, or not. I can see that the energy we add to this 'balance' is crucial. To watch a horse in balance and in movement is a very pretty sight, far more beautiful than the list of regulated moves that have become the benchmark used to prove horsemanship.
When I was with Mark last year, I noticed he was working really hard on getting people to feel the communication between them and their horse down the reins. We were talking one evening and I said to him that I thought it was really cool the way he was doing that. He said to me that it is interesting that a lot of the 'top' horse trainers say that you can't teach feel, it is something that you have or you don't have.
In our next clinic I started to do the same thing. For some people it was a revelation that such a small thing could be so powerful. For me that is one of the beauties of horsemanship - less is so often more. We are working slightly differently now, using that feel to reach a different level, but the feel is still the same thing.
So where to go from there? I am more and more convinced that the goal itself is the feel and the balance. As soon as the goal becomes something further on and we sacrifice the feel and balance, it is all too easy to get into a 'this must happen' mentality. There is a fine line between that pure communication and a pull, and why do we pull? I think it is because our focus goes beyond the feel and on to some other target. Things like us looking good, having horses in outline, winning stuff, mastering specific moves, and so on, take over at the expense of perfect feel and perfect balance.
For me, I see horsemanship as like life itself. It is difficult to build good stuff on dodgy foundations. But put in a good foundation and the good stuff can come along. With dodgy foundations, I don't think it ever truly can.
When I was with Mark last year, I noticed he was working really hard on getting people to feel the communication between them and their horse down the reins. We were talking one evening and I said to him that I thought it was really cool the way he was doing that. He said to me that it is interesting that a lot of the 'top' horse trainers say that you can't teach feel, it is something that you have or you don't have.
In our next clinic I started to do the same thing. For some people it was a revelation that such a small thing could be so powerful. For me that is one of the beauties of horsemanship - less is so often more. We are working slightly differently now, using that feel to reach a different level, but the feel is still the same thing.
So where to go from there? I am more and more convinced that the goal itself is the feel and the balance. As soon as the goal becomes something further on and we sacrifice the feel and balance, it is all too easy to get into a 'this must happen' mentality. There is a fine line between that pure communication and a pull, and why do we pull? I think it is because our focus goes beyond the feel and on to some other target. Things like us looking good, having horses in outline, winning stuff, mastering specific moves, and so on, take over at the expense of perfect feel and perfect balance.
For me, I see horsemanship as like life itself. It is difficult to build good stuff on dodgy foundations. But put in a good foundation and the good stuff can come along. With dodgy foundations, I don't think it ever truly can.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
